Chat Transcript for 03/31/08

[2008/03/31 11:27] IM: Farqot Gustafson: For Beyers: 1. At what point of pulling ?
L$ out of SL does it become an income tax issue?
[2008/03/31 11:27] IM: Beyers Sellers: not funny, iYan!
[2008/03/31 11:27] IM: BigJosh Capalini luffs scope cleaver
[2008/03/31 11:27] IM: Chimera Cosmos: Ain't technology grand!? haha
[2008/03/31 11:28] IM: JenzZa Misfit: ....good question Farqot !
[2008/03/31 11:28] IM: Farqot Gustafson: 2. What estate issues come about if the ?
person behind the avatar dies...
[2008/03/31 11:28] IM: Marc Montague: ?Question: Is this group only capable to ?
give advise on US-American taxations or also other countries?
[2008/03/31 11:28] IM: Beyers Sellers: Farqot, that is indeed question number 1
[2008/03/31 11:28] IM: Lovely Encore: chuckles @Bjorlyn
[2008/03/31 11:28] IM: Bjorlyn Loon pokes all people who make enough in SL to need ?
tax advice: builder for hire!
[2008/03/31 11:28] IM: Farqot Gustafson: Who inherits the avatar? What becomes of ?
the avatar's assets within SL?
[2008/03/31 11:28] Dancer Morris: question: in a setting that is such a ?
combination of work and entertainment, how do we sort out what is a deductible ?
expense?
[2008/03/31 11:28] IM: Beyers Sellers: oh, my god, Farqot
[2008/03/31 11:28] IM: Beyers Sellers: that was NOT on the list!
[2008/03/31 11:28] IM: JenzZa Misfit: Farqot ..that actually now
[2008/03/31 11:28] IM: Bjorlyn Loon: there was a blog bit on that recently Farqot
[2008/03/31 11:28] IM: Bjorlyn Loon: did you see it?
[2008/03/31 11:28] IM: BigJosh Capalini: Read SL TOS.
[2008/03/31 11:29] IM: JenzZa Misfit: you can put it in your will now
[2008/03/31 11:29] IM: Beyers Sellers: actually, does anyone know what ToS say on ?
that?
[2008/03/31 11:29] IM: JenzZa Misfit: Read SL TOS
[2008/03/31 11:29] IM: JenzZa Misfit: yes indeed
[2008/03/31 11:29] IM: Farqot Gustafson is concerned about tax issues with WSE no ?
longer dealing with L$
[2008/03/31 11:29] IM: Bjorlyn Loon: Ill go try to find the reference
[2008/03/31 11:29] IM: JenzZa Misfit: and thats recent too
[2008/03/31 11:29] IM: Bevan Whitfield: oh Farqot, such a brilliant mind
[2008/03/31 11:29] IM: Dex Trenchcoat: it is true that you can put things like ?
group land in your will...
[2008/03/31 11:29] IM: JenzZa Misfit: you can leave your avatar and assets ?
........ in your will .. to your heirs
[2008/03/31 11:30] IM: BigJosh Capalini: THE AVATAR REMAINS IN-WORLD UNTILL IT ?
COMMITS AN OFFENCE OR RULE VIOLATION.
[2008/03/31 11:30] IM: Beyers Sellers: does someone have a link on that?
[2008/03/31 11:30] IM: BigJosh Capalini: thats what i think.
[2008/03/31 11:30] IM: JenzZa Misfit: time me
[2008/03/31 11:30] IM: Bjorlyn Loon: ?
http://blog.secondlife.com/2008/02/28/knowledge-base-article-of-the-week...?
-the-veil/
[2008/03/31 11:30] IM: Chimera Cosmos: mine is playing music...is that right?
[2008/03/31 11:30] IM: JenzZa Misfit: Bjorlyn wins !
[2008/03/31 11:30] IM: JenzZa Misfit: there it is Beyeres
[2008/03/31 11:30] IM: Bevan Whitfield: thank god you are my broker Farqot
[2008/03/31 11:30] Tammy Nowotny seems to hav time to start making coffee
[2008/03/31 11:31] IM: JenzZa Misfit: music for now Chimera ... show about to ?
resume we hope
[2008/03/31 11:31] Jol Maximus: lol
[2008/03/31 11:31] IM: Chimera Cosmos: kk
[2008/03/31 11:31] IM: Bevan Whitfield: ;-)
[2008/03/31 11:31] IM: IYan Writer: hi Chi!
[2008/03/31 11:31] IM: Farqot Gustafson: TY, Bjorlyn. This topic came up in a ?
discussion group that I'm part of this weekend.
[2008/03/31 11:31] IM: Bjorlyn Loon: I thought it was really interesting... Im ?
more worried about passing on my collection of shoes from shiny things than I am ?
passing on my real life Franklin Mint collection of thimbles depicting north ?
american birds....
[2008/03/31 11:32] IM: Harper Beresford laughs at Bjorlyn.. omg I relate
[2008/03/31 11:32] IM: Chimera Cosmos: hi iYan :-)
[2008/03/31 11:32] IM: BigJosh Capalini: Lol.. me to
[2008/03/31 11:32] IM: Bjorlyn Loon: and NO JenZza you may not have my SHOES!
[2008/03/31 11:32] IM: Beyers Sellers: How do I bequeath my Second Life account ?
and assets to another Resident if I die in real life? In your will, you must ?
include the legal (real-life) name of the person who you want to inherit your ?
Second Life account and assets, in the event of unfortunate circumstances. This is ?
mentioned in Paragraph 2.4 of our Terms of Service, specifically: You may ?
not transfer your Account to any third party without the prior written consent of ?
Linden Lab; notwithstanding the foregoing, Linden Lab will not unreasonably ?
withhold consent to the transfer of an Account in good standing by operation of ?
valid written will to a single natural person, provided that proper notice and ?
documentation are delivered as requested by Linden Lab. Our Support team will ?
require a copy of the appropriate section of the will, along with government-issued ?
ID from the person inheriting the account, to confirm this.
[2008/03/31 11:32] Butch Dae: No sound or is it mysystem?
[2008/03/31 11:32] Dancer Morris: I'm not getting anything right now either
[2008/03/31 11:32] Jol Maximus: no sound now
[2008/03/31 11:32] IM: Beyers Sellers: ok, we are starting in a moment
[2008/03/31 11:33] IM: Beyers Sellers: make sure you have the audio or video ?
stream on
[2008/03/31 11:33] IM: JenzZa Misfit: ... I am SO leaving Beyers my hair ?
collection
[2008/03/31 11:33] IM: Harper Beresford: i don't think my son wants my limitied ?
edition Nicky Ree
[2008/03/31 11:33] JayR Cela: byeeeeeeeee / good luck making things work
[2008/03/31 11:33] Dirk Talamasca: mute and unmute sound
[2008/03/31 11:33] IM: IYan Writer: all 1000 items Jen?
[2008/03/31 11:33] IM: JenzZa Misfit: lol @ Harper
[2008/03/31 11:33] IM: Sonja Strom: haha JenzZa
[2008/03/31 11:33] IM: Robins Hermano: There goes my business plan for setting up ?
a virtual cemetery
[2008/03/31 11:33] TJ Asp shouts: the Video stream states: Coming up in just a few ?
minutes......
[2008/03/31 11:33] IM: Bevan Whitfield: Wow, that is so interesting, and who ?
wants my shoes?
[2008/03/31 11:33] IM: BigJosh Capalini: LOL Harper
[2008/03/31 11:33] IM: JenzZa Misfit: LOL
[2008/03/31 11:34] Tammy Nowotny: I followed the previosu slide's advice and began ?
making coffee
[2008/03/31 11:34] JayR Cela: lol / any one ever hear of getting here early and ?
doing a sound check ?????
[2008/03/31 11:34] IM: Farqot Gustafson: Bevan, not Imelda Marcus wants that many ?
pairs of shoes!
[2008/03/31 11:34] IM: Yxes Delacroix: please be sure to have either your music OR ?
video buttons working
[2008/03/31 11:34] IM: Chimera Cosmos: Shoes! must have more shoes!
[2008/03/31 11:34] Butch Dae: I hear you.
[2008/03/31 11:34] IM: Farqot Gustafson: TY, all. That answers my 2nd question.
[2008/03/31 11:34] IM: Yxes Delacroix: we have had to move to Skype conference ?
call, as sound was too choppy. :)
[2008/03/31 11:34] IM: Bjorlyn Loon: I heard someone in SL set up a pet cemetary?
[2008/03/31 11:35] IM: Yxes Delacroix: we are back
[2008/03/31 11:35] IM: LifeFactory Writer: I am receiving sound on the video ?
stream but not the audio, if this helps anyone.
[2008/03/31 11:35] IM: Bevan Whitfield: lol Harper
[2008/03/31 11:35] IM: Chimera Cosmos: feeling urge to shop right now...
[2008/03/31 11:35] IM: BigJosh Capalini: Bevan.. you gots some slippers ?
[2008/03/31 11:35] IM: JenzZa Misfit: sound is clear now Yxes
[2008/03/31 11:35] IM: Bevan Whitfield: ok Chimera called it, you're in my ?
will....takes notes "Chimera gets shoes"
[2008/03/31 11:35] IM: Bevan Whitfield: oh yes Bigjosh!
[2008/03/31 11:35] IM: JenzZa Misfit: on the vid stream
[2008/03/31 11:35] IM: Yxes Delacroix: excellent!
[2008/03/31 11:35] IM: Chimera Cosmos: woo hoo!
[2008/03/31 11:35] IM: Harper Beresford: i want all your black turtlenecks, Bevan
[2008/03/31 11:36] IM: Bevan Whitfield: all 17?
[2008/03/31 11:36] IM: Bevan Whitfield: ...takes more notes...
[2008/03/31 11:36] IM: Quinn Houston: I hear and see both.
[2008/03/31 11:36] IM: Harper Beresford: yes
[2008/03/31 11:36] IM: Bjorlyn Loon: make Harper pay, Bevan
[2008/03/31 11:36] IM: Bevan Whitfield: oh goodness never!
[2008/03/31 11:36] IM: Bjorlyn Loon: royalties perhaps
[2008/03/31 11:36] IM: Bjorlyn Loon: =)
[2008/03/31 11:37] IM: Yxes Delacroix: just use one or the other, music or vid. :) ?
we are using skype conference right now.
[2008/03/31 11:37] Tammy Nowotny: I reccomend "Chili, Bean & Associates"
[2008/03/31 11:37] Harper Beresford: lol tammy
[2008/03/31 11:37] IM: Alaya Kumaki: can u send me a tp
[2008/03/31 11:38] IM: TJ Asp: http://streams.slcn.tv/live.mov just stay where ?
you are and watch the stream in a browser.. that's my advice
[2008/03/31 11:38] IM: Alaya Kumaki: ok thanks a lot all:))
[2008/03/31 11:39] IM: Chimera Cosmos: Rocky is hanging in the air...
[2008/03/31 11:39] IM: Bjorlyn Loon: that's what Im doing TJ =)
[2008/03/31 11:40] IM: Rocky Maddaloni: i m still here :)
[2008/03/31 11:40] IM: Alaya Kumaki: the stream and sound is good there!
[2008/03/31 11:40] IM: Harper Beresford: woot! Raven!
[2008/03/31 11:41] IM: Chimera Cosmos: and Beyers is bald and skinny...I must be ?
dreaming or in an alternate universe lol
[2008/03/31 11:42] IM: Bevan Whitfield: noooooo
[2008/03/31 11:42] IM: Yxes Delacroix: you might need to relog Chimera! LOL
[2008/03/31 11:42] IM: Yxes Delacroix: it's all about your viewer in this case!! ?
Hehehe
[2008/03/31 11:42] IM: Chimera Cosmos: ok, so it IS just me :-) better get ?
coffee...hahahaha
[2008/03/31 11:42] IM: Alaya Kumaki: a second life is also a second hair ?
balding
[2008/03/31 11:42] IM: Yxes Delacroix: coffee good!
[2008/03/31 11:42] IM: Dex Trenchcoat: Yea.. Beyers Gene Therapy was pretty ?
dramatic.. :)
[2008/03/31 11:43] IM: Chimera Cosmos: hehe
[2008/03/31 11:43] IM: Yxes Delacroix: bring enough for all ! lol
[2008/03/31 11:43] IM: TJ Asp: Who's chewing on their microphone?
[2008/03/31 11:43] IM: Marc Montague: beyers does LOL
[2008/03/31 11:43] IM: Pebbles Hannya: Question: Is that money in and money out ?
treated like the rest of the Internet: Tax applies in the location where the income ?
is (not where the client is or where the server is)?
[2008/03/31 11:44] IM: Pebbles Hannya: * opps where the income is earned.
[2008/03/31 11:44] FEI Gumbo: So is this still going on?
[2008/03/31 11:44] Chase Marellan: Yes, you need to turn on the audio stream
[2008/03/31 11:45] IM: Dancer Morris: I would think that in the virtual workd ?
context, you are earning the income where you are in RL when you do your in-world ?
work -- but I'm curious what the experts will say
[2008/03/31 11:47] IM: Bevan Whitfield nods at Dancer
[2008/03/31 11:48] IM: Bevan Whitfield: 'dealt' with it?
[2008/03/31 11:48] IM: Leif Apfelbaum: Grant Green was a great guitar player.
[2008/03/31 11:48] IM: Robins Hermano: I think he was contasting SL with eBay and ?
saying SL isn't nearly as large and Ebay itself isn't asked to oversee tax issues
[2008/03/31 11:49] IM: Beyers Sellers: yes, true Robins
[2008/03/31 11:49] IM: Bevan Whitfield: We've had Metanomics's discussions on that ?
- will the IRS help or hinder?
[2008/03/31 11:49] IM: Robins Hermano: Sidestepping the issue all togetehr
[2008/03/31 11:50] IM: Robins Hermano: woot! accounting education
[2008/03/31 11:50] IM: Farqot Gustafson: Scary words: "I'm from the IRS, and I'm ?
here to help you..."
[2008/03/31 11:50] Jol Maximus: hmmm hmmm
[2008/03/31 11:51] IM: Alaya Kumaki: in rl there is also, such ?
school,commercial school
[2008/03/31 11:51] IM: Alaya Kumaki: hec
[2008/03/31 11:52] IM: Bevan Whitfield: Well, fine, I'll pay taxes on my income ?
(future? LOL) if they let me take off my expenses for any nacent business I want to ?
try to build.
[2008/03/31 11:52] IM: Dancer Morris: even contexts other than virtual worlds have ?
some interesting questions of location... if you telecommute for a couple of weeks ?
while you are on vacation, is that income really earned in the state or country you ?
are visiting?
[2008/03/31 11:53] IM: Bevan Whitfield: We have so many virtual worlds now, ?
*everyone* involved in this is on the cutting edge and bleeding all over.
[2008/03/31 11:53] IM: LifeFactory Writer: You address my question, Bevan (hi, ?
btw!). I would like to know whether one can deduct SL-related expenses, including ?
membership fees, land costs, etc, as a business expense much as one would deduct ?
any expenses for maintaining a regular website? I will ask this again when there ?
is an opening to do so.
[2008/03/31 11:54] IM: Bevan Whitfield: (hi Life!)
[2008/03/31 11:54] IM: Harper Beresford: amen to that!
[2008/03/31 11:55] IM: Bevan Whitfield: oooo wow
[2008/03/31 11:56] IM: Chimera Cosmos: k Bevan, I'll be patient :-)
[2008/03/31 11:56] IM: Bevan Whitfield gasps
[2008/03/31 11:57] IM: Dancer Morris: LifeFactory: I would think that land costs ?
for stores and upload fees are clear. Membership fees are harder -- how much of ?
your avatar's existence is business and how much is pleasure?
[2008/03/31 11:57] IM: LifeFactory Writer: I do not engage in "pleasure" in SL ;-)
[2008/03/31 11:58] IM: Bevan Whitfield: Yes, they want a chunk of our economy.
[2008/03/31 11:58] IM: Cindy Ecksol: me either!
[2008/03/31 11:58] IM: Bevan Whitfield: (You guys don't buy shoes?)
[2008/03/31 11:58] IM: Farqot Gustafson: Define "pleasure"
[2008/03/31 11:58] IM: Leif Apfelbaum: yeah, thats right. it is more pleasure than ?
business, i think.
[2008/03/31 11:59] IM: Bevan Whitfield: Ohhh, the economy and business world here ?
and in other metaverses (metaversi?) is going to explode.
[2008/03/31 11:59] IM: Bevan Whitfield: (shoes Farqot, shoes)
[2008/03/31 11:59] IM: Quanta Torok: Couldn't we take a 'Taxation without ?
representation' tack on the problem? There is no representation at the national ?
level for a virtual world. We are all members of various states, nations, nation-?
states -- would there be any basis for this arguement in law?
[2008/03/31 12:00] Tammy Nowotny: how you sort out recreational from business ?
linden flows
[2008/03/31 12:00] IM: Farqot Gustafson: There's still a lot of cash tied up in SL ?
Wallet.
[2008/03/31 12:01] IM: Alaya Kumaki: yes unless we are all in the same ?
country... it impossible
[2008/03/31 12:01] IM: TJ Asp: There's nothing guarenteeing that your Linden ?
Dollars are even going to be there the next time you log on.
[2008/03/31 12:02] IM: LifeFactory Writer: Well, I very very rarely come into SL ?
unless I am working on something that will forward what I would like to build here. ?
This includes attending events such as this, where I gain helpful knowledge--I ?
consider it "professional development," and that is deductible in the first world.
[2008/03/31 12:02] IM: LifeFactory Writer: Mmmm....my post disappeared, ?
swallowed....sorry if it appears again later down the line. I had suggested that ?
as long as one is primarily focused on building one's venture while in SL, ?
including attending events such as this, which in the first world would qualify as ?
"professional development"--same as attending a conference-- these would be/should ?
be (?) deductible and the time spent billable.
[2008/03/31 12:02] IM: LifeFactory Writer: oops...there is the post. Sorry.
[2008/03/31 12:03] IM: IYan Writer: ooh LF, genious
[2008/03/31 12:03] IM: Bevan Whitfield: Yes, they should be Life, absolutely
[2008/03/31 12:03] Alliez Mysterio: /what is I sell L$ receive USD but leave it in ?
my lindex account? It is usd but still sits in lindex
[2008/03/31 12:03] IM: 01 Hifeng: heh
[2008/03/31 12:04] IM: LifeFactory Writer: So my question is: are these viable ?
arguments? Would the IRS accept them as business expenses?
[2008/03/31 12:04] Zotarah Shepherd: Would a bank consider Lindens as assets when ?
you are trying to get a loan?
[2008/03/31 12:04] Dancer Morris: I think that would be realized income... but ?
you're probably leaving it there for tier expenses which would be deductible in ?
your case, Alliez, so it's a wash
[2008/03/31 12:04] IM: 01 Hifeng: (aha - my im appeared few mins later o_O)
[2008/03/31 12:04] IM: Farqot Gustafson: Only shoes, Bevan? Does that include ?
your Italian boots too, or is that a seperate category?
[2008/03/31 12:04] Alliez Mysterio: k
[2008/03/31 12:05] IM: LifeFactory Writer: Thanks Iyan. :) I thought so too!
[2008/03/31 12:05] IM: Star Magne: How does the Linden dollars transformed into US ?
dollars cash into SL residents living outside the US? How does taxation apply to ?
them?
[2008/03/31 12:05] IM: LifeFactory Writer: Certainly if any income is going to be ?
taxed, then there should be the comparable deductions.
[2008/03/31 12:06] IM: Bevan Whitfield: (seperate category Farqot, sheesh, you are ?
such a guy ;-)
[2008/03/31 12:06] IM: TJ Asp: Come on LIfe.. don't tell me you're looking for ?
fairness in the tax code?
[2008/03/31 12:06] IM: Quanta Torok: Would SL transactions be covered under IRS ?
regs concerning barter instead of cash income?
[2008/03/31 12:06] IM: Farqot Gustafson hangs his head in shame...
[2008/03/31 12:06] IM: Bjorlyn Loon: Life believes in fairness in all things. ?
*grins at Life*
[2008/03/31 12:07] IM: Bevan Whitfield: ok if I get my lindens here, and put them ?
back in my US paypal, how do I declare that if is NOT actual income?
[2008/03/31 12:07] IM: LifeFactory Writer: Well, I am testing the premise this tax ?
year, and I will let you know if I get audited and how it goes!
[2008/03/31 12:07] IM: LifeFactory Writer: I do not mind paying taxes. I just ?
want to be able to take the deductions too.
[2008/03/31 12:07] IM: LifeFactory Writer: I am a believer, Bjorlyn, but not ?
naive! :D
[2008/03/31 12:07] IM: Robins Hermano: From IRS: Gross income from passive sources ?
... Income from the sale of goods if the seller does not manufacture, produce, ?
physically receive or deliver, negotiate sales of, or keep inventories in the ?
goods.
[2008/03/31 12:07] IM: Bevan Whitfield agrees with Bjorlyn
[2008/03/31 12:08] IM: Bevan Whitfield: I'd be thrilled to pay taxes - once I get ?
something going here - but it costs time and money to get going - so
[2008/03/31 12:08] IM: Robins Hermano: Are virtual goods inventory?
[2008/03/31 12:08] IM: Bevan Whitfield: good question
[2008/03/31 12:08] IM: Ran Hienrichs: Are virtual goods "tangible"
[2008/03/31 12:08] IM: Bevan Whitfield: yes, I would hope so - is art tangible?
[2008/03/31 12:08] IM: Harper Beresford: in his former life: was that pre-first ?
life or is this really his third life?
[2008/03/31 12:09] Jol Maximus: hmm
[2008/03/31 12:09] IM: Bevan Whitfield: LOL Harper
[2008/03/31 12:09] Jol Maximus: somebody hear something ?
[2008/03/31 12:09] IM: IYan Writer: it's the one that needs the (R) harper
[2008/03/31 12:09] IM: IYan Writer: ;)
[2008/03/31 12:09] IM: Farqot Gustafson: A lot of people USED to work for KPMG
[2008/03/31 12:09] IM: Bevan Whitfield: or a past life?
[2008/03/31 12:09] IM: Dancer Morris: I don't think virtual goods that you made ?
yourself would be taxable inventory -- they're really "templates" that don't exist ?
as goods until you sell copies
[2008/03/31 12:09] IM: Ran Hienrichs: Art becomes tangible when it's sold.
[2008/03/31 12:09] IM: Harper Beresford: epp.. sorry.. lol iYan
[2008/03/31 12:09] IM: IYan Writer: the VC company?
[2008/03/31 12:10] IM: Dancer Morris: virtual goods that you buy from others for ?
resale would be another matter
[2008/03/31 12:10] IM: Bevan Whitfield nods at Dancer
[2008/03/31 12:10] IM: LifeFactory Writer: First Life is the (R) life, and one's ?
second life is the (TM) Life ; D
[2008/03/31 12:10] IM: Bevan Whitfield: What about my past life?
[2008/03/31 12:10] IM: Harper Beresford: rofl
[2008/03/31 12:10] IM: Ran Hienrichs: Are services rendered in development ?
taxable?
[2008/03/31 12:10] IM: IYan Writer: as a shepherdess in victorian era Bev?
[2008/03/31 12:10] IM: Chimera Cosmos: Bevans...tell, tell!
[2008/03/31 12:10] IM: LifeFactory Writer: makes convoluted reference to the ?
latest debate over new LL policy. :)
[2008/03/31 12:11] IM: Bevan Whitfield: Oooo great question Ran!!!!
[2008/03/31 12:11] IM: Bevan Whitfield: Ok, Chimera which one?
[2008/03/31 12:11] IM: Pebbles Hannya: Live -1 Bevan?
[2008/03/31 12:11] IM: LifeFactory Writer: Business startup expenses.
[2008/03/31 12:11] IM: Alaya Kumaki: inventory , is cashble if its take as ?
goods when u own money
[2008/03/31 12:11] IM: Cindy Ecksol: hmmmm....buying lindens to play SL seems like ?
gambling to me....
[2008/03/31 12:11] IM: Chimera Cosmos: the most scandalous one, of course :-)
[2008/03/31 12:11] IM: Bevan Whitfield: lol
[2008/03/31 12:11] IM: Dancer Morris: sure sounds like a business expense to me! I ?
suppose that someday some of those might become things you would have to depreciate ?
instead...
[2008/03/31 12:12] IM: Alaya Kumaki: in sl exchange it woeks
[2008/03/31 12:12] IM: Cindy Ecksol: as I reacall, you have to pay taxes on ?
gambling winnings....but losses are not deductible :-)
[2008/03/31 12:12] IM: Bevan Whitfield listens to Beyers
[2008/03/31 12:12] IM: Cindy Ecksol: not sure about "gambling expenses"
[2008/03/31 12:12] IM: TJ Asp: The IRS is only interested in sharing in your ?
successes.
[2008/03/31 12:12] IM: Dancer Morris: you have to pay tax on NET gambling ?
winnings... you can deduct losses from your winnings but not from anything else
[2008/03/31 12:13] IM: Bevan Whitfield: Ok, what about buying business clothes to ?
go to meetings? What about advertizing in SL mag? What about sponsoring?
[2008/03/31 12:13] IM: Dancer Morris: though there is an exception for people who ?
can actually make a credible case for being a professional gambler, like some poker ?
players
[2008/03/31 12:13] IM: Tammy Nowotny: unelss you are a professional gambler... ?
which some people are (e.g., professional poker palyers)
[2008/03/31 12:13] IM: Zotarah Shepherd: A whole other world of deductibles.
[2008/03/31 12:14] IM: Dancer Morris: the IRS will look closely at you though; you ?
have to have REALLY good documentation to go that route
[2008/03/31 12:14] IM: Skye Whitcroft: Perhaps this only applies to us paying US ?
taxes, but why not just use the cash method of accounting?
[2008/03/31 12:14] IM: Cindy Ecksol: how do you define "professional poker ?
player"?
[2008/03/31 12:14] IM: Bevan Whitfield: Well, it is all documented in ?
transactions.
[2008/03/31 12:14] IM: Dex Trenchcoat: perhaps thats part of the problem for ?
content theft.... the stuff they make has no leagl definition by the sound of it.
[2008/03/31 12:15] IM: LifeFactory Writer: I think a case can be made that all of ?
those things are deductible, Bevan. Advertising expenses,networking expenses, etc. ?
If you go to an interview in the first world, the expenses involved are ?
deductible, including printing cards, resumes, etc, taxi to get there, and proper ?
attire. Just don't be misleading, is the rule, Ithink. And I hope one of these ?
tax experts will correct me if I am wrong.
[2008/03/31 12:15] IM: Cindy Ecksol: cash accounting sounds the most reasonable to ?
me.
[2008/03/31 12:15] IM: Bevan Whitfield: yes, life, exactly
[2008/03/31 12:15] IM: Skye Whitcroft: I hope so, it's what I am using.
[2008/03/31 12:15] IM: Sonja Strom: Good camera work! :-)
[2008/03/31 12:16] IM: LifeFactory Writer: Not that any of these expenses amount ?
to much in real currency--but it is a test of principle and new tax laws in the new ?
age of VR business.
[2008/03/31 12:16] IM: Bevan Whitfield: Ok so, I make a web site, bill someone, ?
take off my expenses - what's the diff?
[2008/03/31 12:16] IM: Bevan Whitfield: yes Life, yes!
[2008/03/31 12:16] IM: Bevan Whitfield: oh gosh don't do that Beyers!! noooo
[2008/03/31 12:16] IM: LifeFactory Writer: So I'll let you know if I get audited! ?
:D
[2008/03/31 12:16] IM: Bevan Whitfield: well, I have to do my RL US taxes soooo
[2008/03/31 12:16] IM: LifeFactory Writer: I'm prepared to make my case to the tax ?
man.
[2008/03/31 12:17] IM: Bevan Whitfield: gosh it would help to write some of my ?
RL/SL investment but
[2008/03/31 12:17] IM: Robins Hermano: This slop is getting slippery, if we can ?
deduct something as soon as $'s are turned into Lindens, then LIndens can be argued ?
to be a currency which can be taxed
[2008/03/31 12:17] IM: Alaya Kumaki: taxes must be , out world , only when u ?
take them out the virtual vrld in ur account
[2008/03/31 12:17] IM: Bevan Whitfield: yikes too frightened!
[2008/03/31 12:17] IM: Robins Hermano: *slope
[2008/03/31 12:17] IM: LifeFactory Writer: Exactly, Beyers. I am not one of those ?
yet, but intend to be at some point.
[2008/03/31 12:17] IM: LifeFactory Writer: :)
[2008/03/31 12:17] IM: Bevan Whitfield: Agrees with Alaya
[2008/03/31 12:18] IM: Quinn Houston: If I convert my Lindens to us $$ and use it ?
to pay my teir fee, how does that apply?
[2008/03/31 12:18] Tammy Nowotny: how do you distinguish between "hobby" rules vs. ?
business...ops, I am repeating someone else's question
[2008/03/31 12:18] IM: Dancer Morris: for some it's not an insignificant expense.. ?
I've seen classified ads that cost US$1000 a week, if you run one of those all ?
year it's over $50,000!
[2008/03/31 12:19] IM: Skye Whitcroft: Here's a question: if I'm American living ?
in the EU, but operate on US servers, use American bank accounts and nothing ever ?
hits an EU bank - do I owe EU taxes?
[2008/03/31 12:19] IM: Rocky Maddaloni: Robins is correct - the *slope* does get ?
slippery if the behavior shows speculation and not legit business use
[2008/03/31 12:19] IM: Bevan Whitfield: oh Skye, that is me!
[2008/03/31 12:19] IM: LifeFactory Writer: Once you incorporate, etc, that case ?
should be easy to make.
[2008/03/31 12:19] IM: Bevan Whitfield: Oooh I do that Quinn!
[2008/03/31 12:20] IM: TJ Asp: Very nice disclaimer Beyers
[2008/03/31 12:21] IM: Bevan Whitfield: lag - sorry
[2008/03/31 12:22] IM: Alaya Kumaki: i only know that some exchange in canada ?
cause of the value
[2008/03/31 12:23] IM: Bevan Whitfield: yes
[2008/03/31 12:23] IM: Pebbles Hannya: There are tax treaties that cover this ?
stuff though.
[2008/03/31 12:23] IM: TJ Asp: Ask the IRS.. they won't know either.
[2008/03/31 12:23] IM: Bevan Whitfield: Well, a US citizen only payes taxes over ?
70K in the US but still have to file.
[2008/03/31 12:23] IM: Bevan Whitfield: LOL Tj
[2008/03/31 12:24] IM: Riech Corinthian: isnt there an H&R block in sl...go ask ?
them
[2008/03/31 12:24] IM: JenzZa Misfit: ...... huh ?
[2008/03/31 12:24] IM: Bevan Whitfield: sorry meant 70K in income earned abroad.
[2008/03/31 12:24] IM: Alaya Kumaki: lol
[2008/03/31 12:24] Alliez Mysterio: /ohhh
[2008/03/31 12:24] IM: Bjorlyn Loon: That's me!
[2008/03/31 12:24] Salem Sella: lol
[2008/03/31 12:24] Salem Sella: I can see it that way
[2008/03/31 12:25] IM: Alaya Kumaki: what about feeebies,
[2008/03/31 12:25] IM: Bjorlyn Loon: yaaaay at deducting clothes!
[2008/03/31 12:25] IM: Pebbles Hannya: But the tax on that income is due in the ?
country where you're living even though you also have to file a US return too.
[2008/03/31 12:25] IM: TJ Asp: 70K.. is that "Linden" or US $ ? :-)
[2008/03/31 12:25] IM: Bevan Whitfield: yes!!!
[2008/03/31 12:25] IM: Bevan Whitfield: lol
[2008/03/31 12:25] IM: Tammy Nowotny: luckily right the US$ is at parity with the ?
L$ (exagggerating slightly)
[2008/03/31 12:26] IM: TJ Asp: Do all my alts need ss#'s too?
[2008/03/31 12:26] IM: Alaya Kumaki: if i own twelve freebies houcse , do i ?
have to pay taxes
[2008/03/31 12:26] IM: Bevan Whitfield: we can prove it!
[2008/03/31 12:26] IM: Pebbles Hannya: LOL TJ
[2008/03/31 12:26] IM: Bevan Whitfield: oh personal, like I have time
[2008/03/31 12:26] IM: Chimera Cosmos: what part of socializing is networking? ?
that's business
[2008/03/31 12:26] IM: Farqot Gustafson: More like Yen, Tammy, LOL
[2008/03/31 12:27] IM: Bjorlyn Loon: actually, Aimee Weber's frame for that is ?
interesting... trademarking her av... heard about that at Metanomics....
[2008/03/31 12:27] IM: Bevan Whitfield: Oh goodness, Chimera YES!
[2008/03/31 12:27] IM: TJ Asp: whew
[2008/03/31 12:27] Tammy Nowotny: they may need a taxayers number
[2008/03/31 12:27] IM: Bjorlyn Loon: lol TJ
[2008/03/31 12:27] IM: Bjorlyn Loon: yeah so how does that work then? self ?
reporting?
[2008/03/31 12:27] IM: TJ Asp: LL doesn't actually do the 'paying' , hence , no ?
1099
[2008/03/31 12:28] IM: Riech Corinthian: better start saving those receits
[2008/03/31 12:28] Tammy Nowotny: eBay is in the business of selling ad spaces to ?
sellers
[2008/03/31 12:28] Tammy Nowotny: hence no 1099s from eBay...
[2008/03/31 12:29] IM: Alaya Kumaki: tax is on a territory but here were ?
am i....
[2008/03/31 12:29] IM: Dex Trenchcoat: handing out 1099's would help legitimize ?
virtual businesses thats for sure...
[2008/03/31 12:30] IM: Riech Corinthian: will you have to start obeying osha?
[2008/03/31 12:30] IM: Harper Beresford: well, i have carpal tunnel
[2008/03/31 12:31] IM: Harper Beresford: from clicking "buy' too often
[2008/03/31 12:31] IM: Chimera Cosmos: Does that mean they would not work with ?
Soph? :-)
[2008/03/31 12:31] IM: Ran Hienrichs: Could we have contact information stated ?
again for the record for the speakers.
[2008/03/31 12:32] IM: Chimera Cosmos: lol Harper
[2008/03/31 12:32] IM: Tammy Nowotny: poor app performance does cause more capral ?
tunnel actually... people clcik more when the app is slow... bit also the faster an ?
app runs the more rlaxed they are
[2008/03/31 12:32] IM: Dex Trenchcoat: I would imagine that most of the same rules ?
that govern web businesses would apply here since SL is basically its own worldwide ?
web
[2008/03/31 12:32] IM: LifeFactory Writer: lol
[2008/03/31 12:32] IM: Harper Beresford: what tammy said
[2008/03/31 12:33] Tammy Nowotny: TY. well worth waiting for!
[2008/03/31 12:33] IM: JenzZa Misfit: *** As Beyers mentioned in his intro *** ?
Muse Isle Arena will be hosting Metanomics RECAP on Tuesdays at 3 PM SL time -- ?
SLCN.TV will rebroadcast the prior day's show *****and we will engage in analysis ?
and lively discussion. Join us to see it with others for the first time OR a ?
second time around. This is also a great opportunity for many of you to meet ?
people you might not know yet who have similar interests and are members of the ?
virtual business community.*** Our world. Our Power in Networking **** Contact Muse ?
Isle's Metanomics Concierge - Bevan Whitfield OR JenzZa Misfit for more details - ?
Hope to see you on Tuesdays ! ***
[2008/03/31 12:34] IM: Robins Hermano: Great show Beyers
[2008/03/31 12:34] IM: Alaya Kumaki: byebye
[2008/03/31 12:34] IM: Chimera Cosmos: We love you Beyers!!
[2008/03/31 12:34] IM: Bevan Whitfield: Omg, I can see the questions already!
[2008/03/31 12:34] IM: JenzZa Misfit: ...great show Beyers and guests & ty CMP & ?
SLCN.TV ***and all the Metanomics fans !
[2008/03/31 12:34] IM: Farqot Gustafson: TY, Beyers!
[2008/03/31 12:34] IM: Malburns Writer: Thanks all - fine session
[2008/03/31 12:34] Salem Sella: Claps Very Loudly!!!!
[2008/03/31 12:34] IM: Quanta Torok: woot Beyers!
[2008/03/31 12:34] IM: JenzZa Misfit: :)
[2008/03/31 12:34] IM: Alaya Kumaki: yes thanks a lot
[2008/03/31 12:34] IM: Dex Trenchcoat: lol
[2008/03/31 12:34] IM: Ran Hienrichs: As always, splendid work from the pros!
[2008/03/31 12:34] Tammy Nowotny: Thanks Beyers, Chili & Tom
[2008/03/31 12:34] IM: JenzZa Misfit: check event listings too :: discussion ?
category
[2008/03/31 12:35] IM: Ran Hienrichs: Thanks all.
[2008/03/31 12:35] IM: Bevan Whitfield: fab show
[2008/03/31 12:35] IM: LifeFactory Writer: Bye, All. Enjoy the day.
[2008/03/31 12:36] IM: Bevan Whitfield: It was so interesting to see that there ?
are a few US living in Europe and have the same questions as I do...
[2008/03/31 12:36] IM: LifeFactory Writer: If anyone in SL should be earning a ?
profit, Beyers, it would have to be you.